Abandon All Hope – Discussion

Nate Winchester– Welcome Seph and congratulations again on your wedding.

Sephira– Thank you! 🙂

NW– So you finally got caught up with Supernatural?

S – Just in time for the hiatus, yes

NW– So… the colt finally returned!

S– It did. Assuming that was the real colt. I was very disappointed that it didn’t work right
There goes my theory that somebody should have tried it on God to see what would happen.

NW– Obviously God must be 1 of the 5 “things” it won’t work on. I keep wondering whether Lucifer meant 5 “types” of things or just 5 beings period.

S– If he meant types, that’s even worse.
“Deities, angels, demons, some humans, and large deer.”

NW – Well we know it works on demons. I’m also betting arcangel is supposed to be a different category from angel (considering the power differences between the two).

S– Well if you go by official Christian theology, they’ve used up most of the archangels. There are only four.

NW– They’ve used up all of them- Raphael, Gabriel, Lucifer and Michael. Throw in God and that could be the 5 things Colt can’t kill.

S– By some accounts Uriel was meant to be one as well. But yeah.
It is a little bit lame that the colt can’t kill them.

NW– Uriel did say that the only thing that can kill an angel is “another angel” (but we could pass that off as bragging). I do have to give the show credit for getting another part of Christian theology right though: Man cannot defeat Satan alone.

S– Yeah, I like the way they have done Satan so far. He is a good character.

NW– He remains evil, we can pass off a lot of his statements as “unreliable narrator” and he actually comes off as tempting. This might be the most accurate depiction of Satan ever.

S– It’s one of the best I’ve seen 🙂 Even if their angels aren’t exactly canon.

NW– Well angels at 100% canon might get boring. I can let some things slide for literary purposes to a point (the antichrist was just too far though).

S– hahahaha the antichrist bothered you as well? I think I groaned out loud when Castiel defined it

NW– I think one of my longest rants on record was induced by that episode. What’s even more offensive, is that within the show’s canon itself, Sam makes a better antichrist than the kid.

S– What do you mean?

NW– Well Christ was the indwelling of God in man. Sam is “supposed” to be the vessel or “indwelling” of Satan. Jesus saved the world, Sam has doomed it. Both cast out demons. Both died but one came to life because of God, another because of demons. I do know there was some talk about sam == antichrist (though where it was I’d have to look it up again) and I just thought the parrellels between JC & SW were stronger and made for better writing.

S– that’s a good point
But they didn’t seem to even mean antichrist like that. It was more like ‘let’s name this character something Biblical-sounding, we haven’t used antichrist yet’

NW– Which makes me even angrier because then they were being lazy. But let’s finish up with the “abandon all hope” episode then rant about the season in general.

S– Because everyone but me seemed to think it was great and really well done. But I wasn’t paying attention.

NW– How could you not like it? (I’m probably one of those people)

S– Two words: Ellen. Dead.

NW– True, I hated seeing her die too.

S– She deserved a better death!

NW– Kamakazee explosion taking out a dozen hellhounds? It could have only been better if she had shot Satan and then he killed her.

S– Now that would have been cool.
I don’t know. It seemed like her and Jo died trying to save Dean. I’m an old-fashioned gal. It’s not very chivalrous.

NW– No argument there, but when the world’s on the line, I think we all have to do our part.

S– True, but Dean could have died instead. The angels would have brought him back anyway!

NW– I am wondering how the whole “resurrection” deals work out. Note that in Lazarus Rising Dean is brought back “fully healed” but his anti-posession tattoo is left on (I guess Castiel figured it would be helpful). If he was brought back to life, would the angels do so without those handy hidey runes on his ribs?

S– I hadn’t thought about that!
Also, would he actually be resurrected, seeing as Castiel can’t do it anymore?

NW– Well Zachariah said he’d bring back Chuck if the prophet killed himself so maybe all the angels have reapers on speed dial. (fun fact: in some earlier episodes, you can catch Castiel’s name muttered in some spirit summoning ceremonies)

S– Huh. That’s pretty awesome
Anyway, I am mourning Ellen. And I wanted Jo and Dean to eventually settle down and have babies.

NW– I’ll admit I don’t think Jo was exactly the girl for Dean. Yes I may be an Anna/Dean shipper but there’s no need for us to fight.

S– Hahah
Well, really I just want a happy ending for him somehow. I’m not sure him and Anna could ever have a normal life.

NW– Well I’m hoping after everything, she can become mortal or something.
Anyway, do you have any bets on how the series might hit the finish line?

S– They have me pretty stumped at the moment. I am just praying that Sam survives somehow. They have been through so much I want them to have happy endings.

NW– Well Satan said Sam would give in “6 months in Detroit” (in The End Future Dean said Sam also said yes in Detroit but it was a few years later) which means that the season finale should be in Detroit. (dunno what’s so special about that town)

S– Maybe humanity’s end was symbolized in the downfall of America’s car industry?

NW– That would fit a motif of the show. Still, with the Colt option out, that means the show can only end with: God or one or both of the brothers giving in.

S– Yeah. It’s not looking good for Sam at the moment. But I can hope 🙂 Maybe he will go into the light and be happy with Jess
And Dean will marry Anna.

NW– Or be with Jo. I just hope that before the finale in Detroit, they at LEAST have one conversation about Dean giving into Michael to kill Satan before he jumps Sam’s bones.

S– Why do you want that?

NW– Because now with the Colt out, it’s the next best option for them (and would be in character for Dean).

S– Oh I see

NW– I’m also hoping Dean gets to talk to Michael at least once. I keep wondering how he’s supposed to say ‘yes’ without talking to the guy.

S– I hope they do Michael’s character as well as they’ve done Satan’s so far

NW– Well there’s only one person for them to cast as Michael.

S ?

NW– Bruce Campbell!!

S– Oh definitely.

NW– Eric’s said he’s been wanting the great one on the show from day 1. That’s the the only roles left for him now.

S– or he could play God.

NW– Exactly!

S– That’s the kind of awesomeness I would expect from the show.

NW– I’m still putting heavy odds that they’re going to bring back Jeffery Dean Morgan to play God though, it just fits the parrallels so much.

S– That would make me die. Of awesomeness overload.

NW– It would make us all die Seph.
So… thoughts on the season as a whole?

S– Suprisingly, I’ve liked it. It’s my second favorite after 2 so far

NW– You didn’t like 4 that much?

S– I liked 4. But 5 is even better! I think ‘The End’ pushed me over the edge

NW– True, that was an insanly awesome episode. But if that turns out to be the true end of the show…

S– There’s been more Sam focus this season.

NW– And it introduced your avatar- Emily Perkins.

S– hehehe
Except all my fanfiction would be about John Winchester slashed with me.

NW– That’s how it always starts. It’s the gateway drug.
So, any questions for the SPN know-it-all?

S– I would like to know your opinion of the general direction of the show. It seems to vary.

NW– My opinion or the show’s direction?

S– Yes. Some people think it really went downhill after S3, others think it started getting good then.

NW– Yeah, 2 was an improvement over 1. S3 faltered and I’m reading the 3 guide right now, seems a lot of it’s missteps was because of executive meddling. 4 and 5 have been a steady climb up in my opinion.

S– I am almost glad 3 got cut short because of the strike. I didn’t like a lot of the stuff they seemed to be trying to do.
But it seems like as the show has been getting more popular in 4 and 5, a lot of the fandom following has quietened down.

NW– Kripke & Co said the exact same thing.

S– Good to know!

NW– I do enjoy the show experimenting. Though a few of the episodes in 5 seem to ruin the atmosphere they have been trying to create.

S– Like what?

NW– Old Dean has got to be the best example. Nothing in that episode relates to Armegeddon and so many questions rise because of it. Like… what Lucifer do if Sam lost all of his years? (same with Michael and Dean)

S– Yeah. It’s like they can’t stretch the Apocalypse out for the whole season, so they just throw in stand alones, and it doesn’t really gel

NW– I thought Fallen Idol kind of geled with it and gave us a hint where MotW could go (“Oh the world’s ending? Well there’s no need for me to behave any more” -Random Monster)

S– Yes. I LOVED that episode!

NW– Seeing Paris Hilton die was great television.

S– It was all Supernatural should be – funny, a bit campy, but also really good

NW– I also thought Changing Channels was a good hint of how they could do things. Why aren’t they running around building up an army?

S– Yes! Rather than sacrificing good hunters, ie Ellen

NW– I keep wondering just how powerful Lucifer must be in that Raphael and Gabriel can’t team up and bring him down.

S– Yeah. He’s just another angel, right?
It would be interesting to see what effect Lucifer’s death might have on humanity 🙂 Seeing as he’s meant to be such a great tempter

NW– Part of me wondered if they would really kill him and then ride out the rest of the season dealing with the consequences but… as you pointed out, that’s beyond the show’s ability. Better to end the show with Satan’s death and let the viewer fill in happily ever after.

S– Yeah
Now I”m on the subject, I’d like to see some consequences of them killing War.

NW– Arabs and Germans everywhere would suddenly become very bored.

S– Haha, and I’d be out of a living. Thanks a lot, boys.

NW– Part of me is still wondering what’s holding Dean back now other than shelfishness. Now that Death has risen the “lots killed in the crossfire” excuse doesn’t seem a problem.

S– Yeah. Although I also kind of admire his stance. Those angels are assholes.

NW– I think it would be a twist for him to “meet” Michael and learn he’s not that much of an asshole.

S– Yeah. They should really let Michael speak for himself. If they can speak to Gabriel, they can speak to him.

NW– Alright then, quiz time:
Best and worst episode of the season so far?

S– Best: The End
Worst: The Real Ghostbusters (Sorry, it annoyed me)

S – What about you?

NW– Best: Changing Channels (the commercial just about killed me with laughter)
Worst: The Curious Case of Dean Winchester

S– Hehe, that’s one that I liked! But we both agree that the commercial was awesome.

NW– So, meet back here when the show is over?

S– Sounds good 🙂 Or maybe after the next hiatus?

NW– There better not be another one, I’ll have a heart attack for sure! Thanks for your time Seph.

S– No problem 🙂 See you around


3 thoughts on “Abandon All Hope – Discussion

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